Comments on: I am Spart-arthus!

By: TracyRosen

TracyRosen — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:53:47 +0000

You are correct, the post itself and the questioning of roles within a defined space of learning is quite appropriate, perhaps even necessary.

It is the ensuing argument, spanning over 70 comments, that I am referring to.
You can call it a questioning, it reads like an argument.

By: TracyRosen

TracyRosen — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:53:00 +0000

You are correct, the post itself and the questioning of roles within a defined space of learning is quite appropriate, perhaps even necessary.

It is the ensuing argument, spanning over 70 comments, that I am referring to.
You can call it a questioning, it reads like an argument.

By: Doug Belshaw

Doug Belshaw — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:09:05 +0000

It's 'appropriate', Tracy, because it's *not* an argument with a
student. It's a questioning of the *role* of students in the
edublogosphere. Arthus is just an example I used.

By: TracyRosen

TracyRosen — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 08:11:59 +0000

umm...one of the most important lessons I learned early on in my teaching career was not to get involved in arguments with students.

Reading through this post and its comments I am amazed at this public argument between teacher and student.

You mention, "appropriate responses and participation" in your first comment, Doug. Help me to understand how it is appropriate to engage in public argument with a student? I read through all of the comments so far, and I don't understand it yet.

By: Doug Belshaw

Doug Belshaw — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 05:09:00 +0000

It’s ‘appropriate’, Tracy, because it’s *not* an argument with a
student. It’s a questioning of the *role* of students in the
edublogosphere. Arthus is just an example I used.

By: TracyRosen

TracyRosen — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 03:11:00 +0000

umm…one of the most important lessons I learned early on in my teaching career was not to get involved in arguments with students.

Reading through this post and its comments I am amazed at this public argument between teacher and student.

You mention, “appropriate responses and participation” in your first comment, Doug. Help me to understand how it is appropriate to engage in public argument with a student? I read through all of the comments so far, and I don’t understand it yet.

By: Doug Belshaw

Doug Belshaw — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 07:28:06 +0000

And as for saying this is not about Arthus... have you checked the title of this post? Or was that just an attempt at a clever pun?

Yep, I was using Arthus as an example of a token of a particular type. It's like in your classroom when you give your students a concrete example. Trouble is, everyone's focusing on the example rather than the point I'm making behind it about students (in general) in the edublogosphere...

Your diatribe has certainly lowered my opinion of your sense of justice.

Oh dear. Glass houses and stones spring to mind:http://betch.edublogs.org/2008/06/05/enough-exc.....

Is it intelligence? Maybe some people are just too stupid to use a computer. Maybe some people really are incapable of learning this stuff? Aptitude has something to do with I'm sure, but that only explains why some people might pick technology skills up quicker than others? it doesn't explain why some don't seem to be able to pick it up at all. Especially when you see the basic, basic stuff that seems to confuse some people? I mean jeez, how hard is it to make a frickin' folder and save something in it? Trained monkeys could do that. If people are too stupid to learn basic, low level operational skills,then maybe they are too stupid to teach.

I'll leave it to other readers to comment on *that*.

By: Doug Belshaw

Doug Belshaw — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 07:28:00 +0000

And as for saying this is not about Arthus… have you checked the title of this post? Or was that just an attempt at a clever pun?

Yep, I was using Arthus as an example of a token of a particular type. It’s like in your classroom when you give your students a concrete example. Trouble is, everyone’s focusing on the example rather than the point I’m making behind it about students (in general) in the edublogosphere…

Your diatribe has certainly lowered my opinion of your sense of justice.

Oh dear. Glass houses and stones spring to mind:

http://betch.edublogs.org/2008/06/05/enough-excuses/

Is it intelligence? Maybe some people are just too stupid to use a computer. Maybe some people really are incapable of learning this stuff? Aptitude has something to do with I’m sure, but that only explains why some people might pick technology skills up quicker than others? it doesn’t explain why some don’t seem to be able to pick it up at all. Especially when you see the basic, basic stuff that seems to confuse some people? I mean jeez, how hard is it to make a frickin’ folder and save something in it? Trained monkeys could do that. If people are too stupid to learn basic, low level operational skills,
then maybe they are too stupid to teach.

I’ll leave it to other readers to comment on *that*.

By: Chris Betcher

Chris Betcher — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 03:38:21 +0000

I work with a fellow (My Director of IT) who is an active member of the Web 2 world, but NEVER uses his real name anywhere. He simply chooses not to. That doesn't make his contributions worth any less. He simply chooses not to. I myself usually show in most places as "betchaboy", not because I'm afraid to use my own name, but because rather like to have a nickname.Your comments seem to be almost fanatically focusses on this obsession with him being called "Arthus"… who cares? Arthus has never been misleading about who and what he is, we have all known for a very long time that he is a student, he is 14 (or was when he "emerged";) and he is from Vermont. What more do you need to know? He's not mislead you at any point. He's never pretended to be anything other than what he is. I can understand why he might want to try again and this time appear as an adult… to see if the intellectual quality of his thinking holds up when people see him as a peer and aren't compensating – positively or negatively – for his age.I think your arguments are coming across as unbalanced and unfair Doug. And as for saying this is not about Arthus… have you checked the title of this post? Or was that just an attempt at a clever pun? Either way, it pretty clearly is aimed at one particular student blogger… the one in the title and the only one you've mentioned by name. If it's just general student bloggers that have you so troubled, how about naming a few more so we can see who else you are troubled by? Or can't you think of too many others?Your diatribe has certainly lowered my opinion of your sense of justice.Chris Betcher

By: Chris Betcher

Chris Betcher — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 03:38:00 +0000

I work with a fellow (My Director of IT) who is an active member of the Web 2 world, but NEVER uses his real name anywhere. He simply chooses not to. That doesn’t make his contributions worth any less. He simply chooses not to. I myself usually show in most places as “betchaboy”, not because I’m afraid to use my own name, but because rather like to have a nickname.
Your comments seem to be almost fanatically focusses on this obsession with him being called “Arthus”… who cares? Arthus has never been misleading about who and what he is, we have all known for a very long time that he is a student, he is 14 (or was when he “emerged”) and he is from Vermont. What more do you need to know? He’s not mislead you at any point. He’s never pretended to be anything other than what he is. I can understand why he might want to try again and this time appear as an adult… to see if the intellectual quality of his thinking holds up when people see him as a peer and aren’t compensating – positively or negatively – for his age.
I think your arguments are coming across as unbalanced and unfair Doug. And as for saying this is not about Arthus… have you checked the title of this post? Or was that just an attempt at a clever pun? Either way, it pretty clearly is aimed at one particular student blogger… the one in the title and the only one you’ve mentioned by name. If it’s just general student bloggers that have you so troubled, how about naming a few more so we can see who else you are troubled by? Or can’t you think of too many others?
Your diatribe has certainly lowered my opinion of your sense of justice.
Chris Betcher